What is the difference between SII, TMI, and Seiko Epson Watch Movements?

There is a lot of confusion in the watch community about Seiko and Seiko-related watches and movements. Most of the confusion from the consumer level comes from how Seiko is a parent company and uses the same name in many of the companies in the group. Although not directly related, and not sharing the same management or facilities, anything produced or marketed by one of Seiko’s core companies or subsidiaries are considered to be affiliated with Seiko.

What is SII, TMI, Epson, etc?

To answer this, first let’s look at the Seiko Group conglomerate based in Tokyo, Japan. According to Investopedia: “A conglomerate is a corporation made up of a number of different, seemingly unrelated businesses. In a conglomerate, one company owns a controlling stake in a number of smaller companies which conduct business separately.”

The Seiko Group is comprised of three core companies, each having various subsidiaries of their own:

• Seiko Holdings Corporation aka Seiko is based in Ginza, Japan
• SII aka Seiko Instruments Inc is based in Chiba, Japan
• Seiko Epson Corp. is based in Suwa, Japan

Then this happened:

“On January 26, 2009, Seiko Holdings and Seiko Instruments announced that the two companies will be merged on October 1, 2009 through a share swap. Seiko Instruments became a wholly owned subsidiary of Seiko Holdings on October 1, 2009.” –source

What is SII O?

You may have seen an laser etching on your watch movement that looks like this: SII O*, for example on this caliber PC33A:

The SII is for Seiko Instruments Inc., and the O with a dot towards the top right corner is actually the SII logo. It looks like a planet with a moon. Perhaps it would have been less confusing if they made the ⚫ solid instead of a hollow O. See the official logo below:

According to the Seiko Instruments official company timeline, they this logo was created as the corporate brand name in 1989, and was adopted as the official acronym of Seiko Instruments Inc.

What about TMI?

Of course fans of the caliber NH35A cannot forget about Time Module, Inc. which is based in Hong Kong.

In TMI’s own words:

“We are a subsidiary of the Seiko Group Corporation. In the name of Time Module (TMI), we sell a wide range of watch movements manufactured by the Group factories to all over the world. With decades of know-how and relentless pursuit of precision, craftsmanship and innovation, we continue to evolve and widen our product line-up…”

This is from TMI:

“Time Module (H.K.) Ltd. was established in 1987 with original funds from Seiko Corporation, Seiko Instruments Inc. and Seiko Epson Corporation. Effective from 1st of December, 2015, Time Module (H.K.) Ltd. is wholly-owned by Seiko Holdings Group, and is dedicated to offering high quality watch movements manufactured by Seiko Instruments Inc..”

Wait, Epson?! Don’t they make printers?

From Wikipedia (link):

The roots of Seiko Epson Corporation go back to a company called Daiwa Kogyo, Ltd. which was founded in 1942 by Hisao Yamazaki, a local clock shop owner and former employee of K. Hattori, in Suwa, Nagano, Japan. Daiwa Kogyo was supported by an investment from the Hattori family (founder of the Seiko Group) and began as a manufacturer of watch parts for Daini Seikosha (currently Seiko Instruments). The company started operation in a 2,500-square-foot (230 m²) renovated miso storehouse with 22 employees.

In 1943, Daini Seikosha established a factory in Suwa for manufacturing Seiko watches with Daiwa Kogyo. In 1959, the Suwa Factory of Daini Seikosha was split up and merged into Daiwa Kogyo to form Suwa Seikosha Co., Ltd: the forerunner of the Seiko Epson Corporation. The company has developed many timepiece technologies. In particular, it developed the world’s first portable quartz timer (Seiko QC-951) in 1963, the world’s first quartz watch (Seiko Quartz Astron 35SQ) in 1969, the first automatic power generating quartz watch (Seiko Auto-Quartz) in 1988 and the Spring Drive watch movement in 1999.

The watch business is the root of the company’s micromechatronics technologies and still one of the major businesses for Seiko Epson today although it accounts for less than one-tenth of total revenues. The watches made by the company are sold through the Seiko Watch Corporation, a subsidiary of Seiko Holdings Corporation.

In 2009, the company became fully owner of Orient Watch Co., Ltd., the one of the largest timepiece manufacturers in Japan.

Also how the businesses are grouped:

“Seiko Group is a Japanese corporate group consisting of three core companies Seiko Holdings Corp. (Seiko), Seiko Instruments Inc. (SII) and Seiko Epson Corp (Epson). They were independent companies linked together by the common thread of timepiece technology. Although they have some common shareholders including the key members of the Hattori family, the three companies in the Seiko Group are not affiliated. They are managed and operated completely independently. Epson has established its own brand image and rarely uses “Seiko.”

This excerpt mentions that the three companies are not affiliated, which may be true in a technical business sense, but not in the eyes of the consumer who learns that the three companies are ultimately owned by Seiko.

Seiko Watch Corp adds to the confusion:

“Seiko Watch Corp., a subsidiary of Seiko Holdings Corp., markets SEIKO watches while Seiko Instruments Inc. and Seiko Epson Corp. manufacture their movements.” –source

Hattori Seiko Co., Ltd.

You may have also seen some Seiko calibers sold with the name Hattori. This is not only the last name of the founder of Seiko Kintaro Hattori, but also used as a label for movements sold by some resellers. We’re still actively researching this subsidiary and will update this post with more information later.

Are SII/TMI/Epson movements made in Japan?

No. Not all Seiko movements are made in Japan. Seiko calibers are made in Japan, Malaysia, and Singapore. They also manufacture watch parts and components in China, which are then used to assemble movements in the aforementioned locations with a mixture of human-made, machine-made, and part human part machine made. As it turns out, few Seiko watches are actually entirely made in Japan.

From Wikipedia:

“Seiko is perhaps best known for its wristwatches, all of which were at one time produced entirely in-house. This includes not only major items such as microgears, motors, hands, crystal oscillators, batteries, sensors, LCDs but also minor items such as the oils used in lubricating the watches and the luminous compounds used on the hands and the dials. Seiko watches were originally produced by two different subsidiaries. One was Diani Seikosha Co., (now known as Seiko Instruments Inc.), and the other was Suwa Seikosha Co. (now known as Seiko Epson Corporation). Having two companies both producing the same brand of watch enabled Seiko to improve technology through competition and hedge risk. It also reduced risk of production problems, since one company can increase production in the case of decreased production in the other party.

Currently watch movements are made in Shizukuishi, Iwate (SII Morioka Seiko Instruments), Ninohe, Iwate (SII Ninohe Tokei Kogyo), Shiojiri, Nagano (Seiko Epson) and their subsidiaries in China, Malaysia and Singapore. The fully integrated in-house production system is still practiced for luxury watches in Japan.”

From jayhall0315:

“…..due to the nature of customs and labor laws in Japan, products are generally allowed to be stamped with Made in Japan if they are produced outside the national boundaries as long as they are manufactured in a wholly owned Japanese firm where the work is overseen by Japanese nationals. Generally speaking, watches priced below about 90000 yen (currently $838 US dollars) do not contain enough profit margin to be made in Japan. This is not just for Seiko, but for all major Japanese manufacturers. Watches priced roughly from 90000 to 250000 yen (currently $838 to 2328 US dollars) are often finished or with final assembly done in Japan and higher end watches above this point are often fully assembled in Japan. …..”

Example of a Seiko Time Corp caliber 7S26C made in Malaysia:

Are Orient Watches Made By Seiko?

Orient is a Japan-based watch brand that started as an independent brand in 1950. In March 2009, Orient Watch became a wholly-owned subsidiary of Seiko Epson. Seiko Epson’s parent company is Seiko Group. So ask yourself, are Orient watches made by Seiko?

Update 1/20/20:

Seiko published a press-release announcing that Seiko Instruments will merge with Seiko Watch Corporation starting April, 2, 2020.

“Both SWC (Seiko Watch Corporation) and SII (Seiko Instruments, Inc.) are wholly owned subsidiaries of Seiko Holdings Corporation. SWC operates the watch business from planning to sales centering on the Grand Seiko and Seiko brands, and SII operates the manufacturing of mainly mechanical watches. With the organizational unification, SWC will now supervise the watch manufacturing operations and facilities currently under SII and will promote rapid decision-making and aim at accelerating the expansion and profitability of the watch business.” –source

UPDATE #2:

Time Module Inc. (TMI) has updated their About Us page with the following:

“Entering a new era, we have changed the product marking to “TMI” since 2020 to unify it with the company’s trade name and strengthen the brand recognition of TMI movements. In order to satisfy the market demand, we will strive continuously to provide stable and high-quality products and services to global customers.” -TMI

After many years of movements being signed “SII” for Seiko Instruments Inc., it appears that as the Seiko brand has continued to gain traction in the watch industry, they are moving their main name away from the wholesale side of the business and distancing themselves from the movements that are made for non-Seiko branded watches.  When SII started making movements available to outside brands, the landscape of the watch industry – as well as respect for Seiko – was in a different place. Therefore, creating a distinction (and totally different name) for the movements may be a smart move, as microbrands and other wholesale customers also gain market share – the use of Seiko movements in their watches could cause confusion against their own watch brand in the future.

Not to mention, TMI being a Hong Kong company with offices in India, gives the conglomerate more separation and leeway for producing watch movements outside of Japan (Malaysia, China, India, and anywhere else they can secure cheap labor compared to Japan).

The real question is: are TMI movements the same as Seiko movements? What we know is that TMI is a subsidiary of Seiko Group Corporation.

According to Investopedia:

“A subsidiary is a company that is owned by another company. The owning company, which is called the parent or holding company, usually owns more than 50% of its voting stock (it can be half plus one share more) of the subsidiary. ” –Source

So movements made by TMI are technically made by Seiko. We also know that they are based on the same designs, although some specs may vary.

What we don’t know is exactly where all TMI branded movements are made – they literally produce them without a country of origin, which in the world of watch movements comes across as sketchy to say the least (in fact, in some markets, it’s actually a legal requirement to have the country of origin stamped on the movement). So, it depends on how you look at it – and unfortunately there are important questions that will be difficult to answer, such as are all of the TMI movements made in Seiko owned factories or TMI outsourced factories?

Seiko is based in Japan. TMI is based in Hong Kong. Are they making TMI movements there? Are they making parts in China and shipping them to other countries for assembly? Are they Seiko owned parts factories shipping to Seiko owned assembly factories? This may not be important to everyone, and there’s nothing wrong with movements made all over the world, but the lack of transparency around the country of origin leads to misleading marketing such as brands selling their NH35 powered watches (and China-based movement resellers) as made in Japan.